Home Forums Ademco Technical Questions Ademco 4219 8 Zone Expander Supervised?

This topic contains 17 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  Security101 5 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #6774

    magoojr79
    Member

    I have been playing around with a Vista 20p and came across an issue that concerns me.  I installed a 4219 Zone Expander and programmed several of the new zones.  When I open the new zones, the system goes into alarm properly.  When I disconnect the 4219 Zone Expander, I don't get any troubles for the missing zones, I don't get a check message for the missing 4219.  Long story short, the system could be disabled by cutting one wire.

    I read through the manual and it specifically states that the 4229 Zone Expander / Relay module is supervised by the alarm panel, nothing is mentioned about the 4219 Zone Expander.

    Has anyone tried using a EOL relay (like the ones used to supervise power to 4 wire smokes) to supervise the power to a 4219 as a way of monitoring the wire between the alarm panel and remote zone expanders?

    #33821

    Security101
    Keymaster

    When you open the zone does it show a fault on the keypad? Have you fully programmed each or at least one zone for that board?

    The panel auto recognises the 4219 when zones are programmed in those slots and set to "AUX WIRE"

    That is a supervised module and should show troubles as you expected.

    I cant think of a reason that it wouldn't check, I'll keep thinking :-\

    Jim

    #33825

    magoojr79
    Member

    Yes, programming seems to be all correct, the zones on the 4219 all function properly and produce the expected messages on the keypad for open and short.  I get nothing when I disconnect the 4219 from the Vista 20p.

    From the installation manual (Notice, the 4219 is not listed):

    • Supervision: 4204 and 4229 modules are supervised against removal. The module’s
    device address is displayed as follows if a module is disconnected from the control’s
    terminals, or if the module cover is removed and the tamper jumper is installed:
    Alpha: CHECK xx Wire Expansion
    FAULT xx Wire Expansion
    ALARM xx Wire Expansion
    Fixed-Glass: lxx (or 91 if field *199 set for 2-digit display)
    where “xx is the module’s address.
    • If communication/tamper failure occurs on a device with zones

    #33826

    magoojr79
    Member

    Also, with the jumper set to activate the tamper supervision, I do get the Check XX message.

    #33827

    Security101
    Keymaster

    I was reading the install sheet for that again and saw

    #33828

    magoojr79
    Member

    Sorry, that's not what I meant.  The tamper function works if I remove the cover, but disconnecting the 4219 from the Vista 20p whether the tamper is enabled or disabled doesn't produce any troubles.

    #33829

    Security101
    Keymaster

    I could be wrong but I think some thing's up (or down as the case may be)

    I feel that it should normally be supervised and I have had supervision issues in the past and have always had a "check 107" (first expander) appear until the problem is solved.

    I'm not sure why yours is not if it is fully programmed and showing correct activity on your keypads.

    I will call dealer tech tomorrow to see if were checking everything right…

    Jim

    #33830

    Security101
    Keymaster

    Alright, I just pulled power from one of mine and got the check signal.

    Mine works! :o

    Here's a thought, have you rebooted the panel since connection of the 4219? (pull transformer/battery – re-hook transformer/battery)

    Expander's some times need a reboot to clear issues, and maybe it just isn't completely recognising it yet :-\

    Jim

    #33833

    magoojr79
    Member

    Did you pull just the power or all four conductors?

    #33844

    Security101
    Keymaster

    Yes – and I did speak to our dealer tech and that is suppose  to do what mine did – instant "Check 107"

    Reboot…

    Let me know what happens…

    Jim

    #33846

    Security101
    Keymaster

    One other thing, this will be a "panel issue" and not an expander issue.

    Jim

    #33964

    magoojr79
    Member

    It's funny, tonight I tried a 4229 zone expander / relay that I got from eBay.  I addressed it the same as the 4219 that it replaced and when I disconnected it I got a trouble for each programmed zone and a check 107.  Reinstalled the 4219 and powered up the alarm panel, disconnected the 4219 and nothing.

    I also bought a 4204 relay module on eBay.  So I defaulted the panel, programmed a few on board zones, a few zones on the 4229 (107), a few zones on the 4219 (108) and a few relays on the 4204 (112).  When I disconnect each module one at a time or all at once I get the missing 107, 108, 112 messages and troubles on each programmed zone just like I should.

    What could I have possibly done in the program for it not to work the first time?  Is this just one of those unexplained alarm gremlins that I have run across in the field?

    #33965

    Alarmtech
    Participant

    Your 20P never liked the first 4219 and was actually glad when it was gone, so it didnt complain. Thats the technical answer…really.

    #33966

    Security101
    Keymaster

    I'm bettin more on the gremlin's…

    Where did you get the panel?

    Jim

    #33980

    magoojr79
    Member

    I bought the panel as a kit on sale at ADI a couple of months ago to play around with at home.  I wanted to teach myself how to program the panel and install the panel as a hobby at first, maybe start working for a residential installer / tech on the side sometime down the road. 

    At work I support Bosch / Radionics burg and fire systems and Firelite 9200, EST 2, and EST QS fire systems.  I don't anticipate every seeing these systems installed in a home.  I do some of the programming on the fire systems when needed, but my company's home office does all of the Bosch programming remotely so I have little experience with it.

    I picked the Ademco Vista-20p panel to play with because from the reading that I've done online it seemed like a widely used panel.  I really liked what I read about the Elk panel, but it would have been an expensive hobby to start :)

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